I Saw You MIT

1. Posted at November 28, 2014, 10:10 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   lame joke or reallllllllllly lame person

2. Posted at November 28, 2014, 11:53 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   This was organized mainly through the BSU mailing list - I encourage you to reach out to MIT't black community about this. The BSU and the OME are good places to start.

3. Posted at November 29, 2014, 2:33 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   But he was rightfully shot in self defense.

4. Posted at November 29, 2014, 1:52 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @3 whooosh. hear that. it's the sound of the point flying over your head. you and millions of other americans don't seem to understand that ferguson is a rallying point for a much bigger societal problem...

5. Posted at November 29, 2014, 2:09 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @4 Just like the Occupy movement?
   
   How did that turn out?

6. Posted at November 29, 2014, 7:06 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @4
   If what you want is a rallying point, Ferguson is a poor choice--it has been an absolute PR disaster.

7. Posted at November 29, 2014, 10:41 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @4 The point is therefore terribly communicated and you gather for your cause no additional reinforcements by condescendingly referring to other Americans.
   
   The problem with a lot of your social justice warriors is that you realize that there are a lot of problems in society, but instead of enlisting society to fight them, you just alienate yourselves from the majority of politically disinclined people who are in the privileged positions of power that you rally against but rely on if any change is to happen. Let's not forget that as valiant the efforts of many Civil Rights leaders, at the end of the day, their PEACEFUL, CIVILIZED protests were to convince the hearts and minds of WHITE POLITICIANS to rewrite laws. Something you new SJW folk don't seem to understand. Your efforts may be for the right cause, but many of you are approaching it in completely ineffective manners.
   
   Also, the riots and the ignorance of some of your members who still believe Brown was a completely innocent individual who was murdered in cold blood do little to convince the rest of society that your movement is a well-informed, legitimate one. Just as 5 points out, the reality of the world is that it's not enough that your motives are right, but your execution has to as well. And until you change your MO from armchair slacktivists ragging on mainstream society with very vocal, misinformed fringe groups to a well-organized, civilized protest, you're not going to change society as a minority.

8. Posted at November 29, 2014, 11:21 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @7
   +1
   
   I think it boils down to the fact that most people care more about their social standing than they do about whatever cause they support. Someone who cares about his crusade should be able to set aside his need for masturbatory self-aggrandizement to realize that when he argues with someone, he asks something of the other--to change his mind. Insults, condescension, and #Icanteven certainly aren't going to accomplish that.

9. Posted at November 29, 2014, 11:25 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

   @4 Given that all we can see from the posters are quotes that supposedly exonerate Brown and paint him as an unjustly shot, innocent young kid, I think the point has whoooooshed over the planners' heads instead.

10. Posted at November 30, 2014, 3:33 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @all
    
    Why is it the minority's job to educate the majority in a society whose members generally claim to believe in equality, justice, etc?
    
    I'm genuinely wondering since you all seem to have fairly set opinions on this and I'm in a Facebook-induced bubble of people who think like me.
    
    Why should the minority be patient and understanding? Why does the majority deserve trust?
    
    And if "social media justice" educates some people about how to understand the minority's perspective, even if it's via easily digestible listicles, isn't that still some kind of progress?

11. Posted at November 30, 2014, 3:52 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    poster 4 here. let me clarify: i'm not saying the response of the black community in ferguson and elsewhere to the brown incident is justified, or that it will be effective. i'm only saying that this type of reaction is an INDICATOR FOR A BIGGER PROBLEM. do not put words in my mouth. poster 7 especially, you read way too much into my response. assuming that i'm a "new SJW type" from a single sentence? jackass. poster 5 doesn't even make a relevant point, and poster 6 is just stating the obvious. pats on the back for you guys, good job.
    
    african-american communities tend to be undereducated and insecure. combine those two together and you get a group of people that has MUCH difficulty expressing their feelings in an eloquent way. blacks are well aware of their lower position on the societal totem, and those who don't have the means or insight to do something about it in a constructive way have no choice but to channel their pent-up frustration through violence. if you can't see any truth in this statement, please do not bother reading on.
    
    the saddest thing is that (supposedly) educated beings like poster 7 and many others born into higher social standing expect the african-american community to mount a coherent, nonviolent response before deeming them worthy of attention. "if there is another MLKjr, of course we'll listen!" you say enthusiastically. do you see how foolish this sounds? instead of asking the deeper "why?", you only see the violence and looting on the surface and disregard this concerns of this population entirely. you trivialize these people as chimps...niggers...violent animals, and don't give it any other thought. because they are violent, they don't deserve to be heard, you say. this is racism in its most subtle and insidious form.
    
    you have to realize that these communities aren't equipped to mount a "socially acceptable" response for you. ignorance and undereducation is rampant, and children who are born into that situation will only perpetuate the cycle. they are HELPLESS to it, and it takes an outsider with bigger insight and heart (which most MIT students lack apparently, judging by the response here) to extend a hand to these people.
    
    by continuing to live this white lie that allows you to separate the world into "good" and "bad" protesters, you marginalize and alienate this entire group of people that, while dangerous and violent at times, are really just desperate, insecure, poor, and ignorant due to factors OUT OF THEIR CONTROL. i guess having school smarts doesn't equate to being able to see out of the mindset you were born with. you should be ashamed, fuck you.

12. Posted at November 30, 2014, 4:03 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    4 and 11 here. let me add. i know brown was innocent...or at the very least that brown tried to assault him. it still doesn't detract from any of the points i made though.
    
    damn, i'm really just ashamed at how much critical thought the supposedly "educated" have....jesus...i'm not even black and i can see this.

13. Posted at November 30, 2014, 4:26 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    4, 11, 12
    >their actions are okay because they don't know any better/can't control themselves
    >but don't trivialize these niggers as chimps who don't know any better/can't control themselves
    
    Great points, champ.
    
    On a related note, why should I or anyone else respect someone who can't behave in a decent way? We want them to behave like real human beans, so let's incentivize that by giving them what they want when they chimp out. That'll totally convince them to join the 21st century.

14. Posted at November 30, 2014, 4:32 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @13 go experience this first hand, you'll see how tragically hopeless these people are to help themselves. you obviously don't care for that fact, so there's no point in arguing with you. i can't help the fact that you don't have enough empathy.
    
    and tbh, i understand that too. why would you want to help people who are belligerent towards you? i understand you, and i don't like you.
    
    short of a miracle (another MLKjr), or wiping off this entire population, the problem of african-american communities in america will persist for a very long time. and i know you agree with me on that.

15. Posted at November 30, 2014, 4:38 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    and i'm not saying violence is OK. that wasn't the point at all, and i made that as clear as i could. again with putting words in my mouth. it's a hard problem, and i guess finger pointing is a lot easier than having a fucking sense of humanity for most people.

16. Posted at November 30, 2014, 7:06 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @ anybody who missed the entire point of the message "Black Lives Matter", specifically 3: If he was shot in self-defense, how does that mean that black lives don't matter? And regardless of your opinion or mine on what happened, neither is clear fact as their is no video of the altercation. That's what trials are for and the reason ppl are mad the man wasn't even convicted. And the message relates to the bigger societal problems because.... A black man in Cleveland was shot in cold blood by police for carrying a toy gun that was in Walmart; this event WAS caught on camera and Ohio is an open carry state anyway and these cops weren't indicted. And another black man was choked to death by police in NYC for allegedly selling loose cigarettes; another event that WAS caught on camera, yet the police weren't indicted either. And back to the Ferguson situation, there was quite a bit of questionable actions taken by Darren Wilson and the Ferguson PD during and after the altercation, again, that's what trials are for.
    
    @ whoever said/believes something to the effect of "black protesters should be more like MLK and things will work" should stfu. period. you probably know all you know about the civil rights movement from your middle/high school textbooks that had 1 or 2 pages on racism/segregation/Jim Crow --> MLK had a dream and marched peacefully --> everything became fine and dandy. foh. For one, MLK (and others, i stress others) marched/protested peacefully and were continuously met with VIOLENCE. I could go on but I got psets to do.. Please take several seats.
    
    @9 who said "the posters are quotes that supposedly exonerate Brown and paint him as an unjustly shot, innocent young kid..": Since when are the people who are shot dead put on trial and needed to be "exonerated" and "proven innocent"? In this country, typically when they're black killed by other races. Hence why we say BLACK LIVES MATTER.
    
    @ anyone who thinks DW's life was in danger: Please go read his testimony word for word and make that opinion for yourself. Because I think a lot of people just take what they have heard online, on the news etc. and run with it. Idk how a teenager who has already suffered a gunshot wound and is about 50 ft away from you is still such a deadly threat that you feel the need to fire multiple addition rounds and kill him with a headshot. But that's just my opinion..
    
    @13 who said "On a related note, why should I or anyone else respect someone who can't behave in a decent way? We want them to behave like real human beans, so let's incentivize that by giving them what they want when they chimp out. That'll totally convince them to join the 21st century.": The irony in your statement is laughable. I wonder if you notice the racism in your own statement. Rioting = "chimping" out? Didn't know that.. They aren't "real human [beings]" because they riot/protest and should "behave" how you want them to? Yet they're the ones that should join the 21st century? Not once did you address whether or not what they are rioting/protesting for in itself is just. But rather you focused on their actions and choosing whether or not to address the issue based on if they act how you want them to.

17. Posted at November 30, 2014, 7:08 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    this is 16: change convicted to indicted on first paragraph

18. Posted at November 30, 2014, 8:54 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @16 lrn2read the autopsy reports, 3 independent studies came up with supporting evidence that Brown was shot while charging at DW (entry points, angles, lack of evidence indicating short range shots) and no evidence that supports executioner-style killing.

19. Posted at November 30, 2014, 9:24 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @3 +1

20. Posted at November 30, 2014, 9:35 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @18 Since when did autopsy reports tell such a vivid story? How do entry points from the front mean that he was charging? And lrn2read that post because 16 said MB was ~50ft away from DW, so lack of evidence about short range shots wouldn't debunk that argument. And I agree that people should read the actual witness testimonies and not he say she say, because I don't think anyone on record described it as a close-range execution-style killing. Furthermore, DW said that MB had already been wounded from a gunshot, hence the blood everywhere (and him probably surrendering rather than charging an armed cop from that distance), so how could he still be that much of a threat unless he is Incredible Hulk in disguise.. mind you MB and DW are the same height.

21. Posted at November 30, 2014, 10:44 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @20 When you're as big as MB, you're going to be able to shrug off a shot or two. Also, lrn2textbookshooting

22. Posted at November 30, 2014, 11:56 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @16
    > For one, MLK (and others, i stress others) marched/protested peacefully and were continuously met with VIOLENCE.
    
    Yeah, and their resilience and civility is what made them the revered heroes today. Not people like the Black Panthers.

23. Posted at December 1, 2014, 12:34 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @22
    On the contrary, their resilience and civility is NOT what made them the "revered" heroes they are today. The fact that their methods could be viewed as docile and easily digested by white America is the reason that they (pretty much just MLK) are put in our middle/high school history books.
    
    Malcolm X never led any violent demonstrations/protests/rallies but is not widely discussed in curriculum. I could say something similar about Stokely Carmichael, John Lewis, and other CR leaders. In fact, the Black Panthers were not an organization based on violence; but they did exercise their open-carry rights in order to protect their communities from police brutality for example.
    
    I won't blame anyone for not being very aware of such facts because our education system is built in such a way that implies all civil rights leaders were violent and failed while MLK was peaceful and prospered.
    
    But furthermore, don't you think that it is problematic that rather than addressing the fact that the government/people in power were/are attacking and/or disrupting these movements (COINTELPRO/Ferguson PD), you assert that the oppressed should simply be "resilient and civil" in their efforts??

24. Posted at December 1, 2014, 1:55 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @16, who doesn't understand irony
    
    13 here. Yes, you got it exactly right. Because they take the death of a criminal in their community to illustrate the inherent unfairness in the system - oh wait, riot loot and commit more crimes (which got their poster child killed in the first place). Take a rational, reasonable reaction, substitute a ridiculous emotional response that makes no sense, and chimpout sounds pretty accurate. Call 'em like I see 'em, don't chimp out and I won't call you a chimp. In the 21st century, we don't burn buildings down and steal things because we're mad.
    
    As for what they're protesting, it's irrelevant if this is how they protest. It doesn't matter. Your argument is akin to me saying I'm teaching you linear algebra, and you should consider linear algebra instead of my teaching method, which consists of burning down the local Little Caesar's.
    
    And bitching about the lack of indictment, he wasn't indicted because there wasn't enough evidence supporting indictment. Can you really, honestly believe he was "innocent" (even though he was a documented criminal) if there was not only not enough evidence to convict, but not enough evidence to even bother going to trial? No, unless you're enamored with the idea of racist cops that there couldn't possibly be another explanation, in which case you're no more rational that the looters.

25. Posted at December 1, 2014, 2:05 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @14, 15
    
    13 again, forgot to mention. I respect you. We have a fundamental difference of belief and certainly nothing said here will change that. But instead of calling me names/whatever else people normally do, you accepted it and moved on. I have a lot of respect for that.

26. Posted at December 1, 2014, 2:08 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @24
    > that the looters
    
    Nice spelling fagit. Although good points.
    
    #LynchTheNiggers
    #RaceWarNow

27. Posted at December 1, 2014, 3:22 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @24, this is 16:
    
    Since when were cops trained to shoot/kill all criminals? There are more than enough occasions of mass murderers being apprehended alive.. And I guess in the 21st century "we" (black ppl) don't burn stuff down and loot when we're mad, but "we" (white ppl) burn stuff down and loot when we celebrate sports victories/losses.
    
    As for the protesting, that was a pretty poor example you tried there. Let me take a shot at one: If you were teaching me linear algebra and I needed it to survive and live a decent safe life, but you were teaching it extremely poorly and biased against me, and although I put up with it for x years and then began asking/complaining for x years and then began peacefully protesting for x years... eventually I'm gonna reach a tipping point and burn your shit down. Maybe you'll listen now.
    
    As many people are doing you are isolating this Ferguson situation and not taking into account the history of police injustice of that town, area, state, etc. These nationwide protests, anger and frustrations are certainly not solely a result of Ferguson. It's simply the straw that broke the camel's back. Are you trying to say that IF these ppl all protested completely peacefully from the get-go (as MOST of the residents have been doing, contrary to what you may see on TV), then justice would have been served accordingly? I doubt it.
    
    You say there wasn't enough evidence to indict, but on what basis? There were conflicting eye-witness accounts, inconsistencies in DW's story, and failed police protocols. But that doesn't warrant a cross-examination of DW in a trial? I mean even the National Bar Association Lawyers released a statement indicating the Ferguson Prosecutor was corrupt. The man behaved more like a defense attorney than a prosecutor who should be trying to indict.

28. Posted at December 1, 2014, 10:10 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    27
    
    >The people whose job it was to figure out what happened found that reality didn't agree with my ironclad narrative of white oppression of blacks
    >Therefore they must be wrong because how could it possibly be that the evil white man wasn't holding down the noble black?
    >Public opinion trumps the law, why bother having trials when I have my feels and I feel like he's guilty
    
    Go self hate somewhere else, cancer that's killing civilization.

29. Posted at December 1, 2014, 10:48 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @27 Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. People have said they saw DW shoot MB executioner-style, only for everyone to slowly redact their statements as real concrete evidence came out. I wouldn't use conflicting eyewitness accounts as an argument point.

30. Posted at December 1, 2014, 12:49 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @28 literally all of this discussion (if I can even call it that) is happening BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TRIAL. The grand jury wasn't the same thing as a trial. They didn't even have a trial. This. Is. The. Problem. Stop acting like we're demanding DW gets instantly thrown in jail when all we're saying is he should have been indicted and tried.

31. Posted at December 1, 2014, 3:26 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    30
    
    Exactly, there was no trial because there wasn't even enough evidence to warrant that. And you're buttmad...why? If there's not even enough evidence to go to trial at all, then you can't be mad about not going to trial. There was not enough evidence to have a trial. The only reason you could possibly advocate a trial is because "well I'd feel better if there was a trial". However, in America, the judicial system operates on evidence, not your feelings, and there was not enough evidence.
    
    Why do you want a trial if there wasn't enough evidence to warrant one? Just to waste more of everyone's time?

32. Posted at December 1, 2014, 4:59 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @31:
    
    That is your opinion. Your opinion is that there was not enough evidence. The opinion of the opposing ppl on this forum, the peaceful and non-peaceful protesters in Ferguson, the thousands of protesters/demonstrators across the country, the National Bar Association Lawyers, the news media ppl in favor of an indictment is that the justice system has failed in this situation because we believe there was enough evidence and the Ferguson PD and prosecution did not operate ethically. I hope you are not naive enough to think the system is or has ever been perfect.
    
    So... we have a difference of opinion on this decision. Cool. But how does that invalidate a poster that says Black Lives Matter (which is representing far more than just Ferguson).

33. Posted at December 1, 2014, 5:58 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I'd just like to point out that if you're here to argue that Black lives *don't* matter, you should probably punch yourself in the face and leave because you're kind of a shitty person.

34. Posted at December 1, 2014, 6:24 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @30. A trail would have been appropriate had DW not been a police officer. However, given the circumstances and his position, non-indictment seems perfectly fair.
    
    I recognize that the indictment proceedings weren't well played out, complete with minor ethical breaches. Perhaps this did affect the outcome of the case. But I think it would be ***impossible*** to offer DW a fair trial given the statements above like that indicate his non-indictment as representing 'far more than just Ferguson.'
    
    A trial would have amounted to Darren Wilson vs Black Lives Don't Matter.

35. Posted at December 1, 2014, 6:24 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @30. A trail would have been appropriate had DW not been a police officer. However, given the circumstances and his position, non-indictment seems perfectly fair.
    
    I recognize that the indictment proceedings weren't well played out, complete with minor ethical breaches. Perhaps this did affect the outcome of the case. But I think it would be ***impossible*** to offer DW a fair trial given the statements above like that indicate his non-indictment as representing 'far more than just Ferguson.'
    
    A trial would have amounted to Darren Wilson vs Black Lives Don't Matter.

36. Posted at December 1, 2014, 7:23 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @33 Nice strawman, but that's not what anyone is arguing. If you're here to argue that white people white people are the ultimate evil, you should probably punch yourself in the face and leave. See, I can do this too.

37. Posted at December 1, 2014, 7:31 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @35
    
    Black Lives Matter (not DW indictment) represents more than Ferguson. Thus the statement: how do ppl's opinion that DW should not have been indicted mean that the BLM posters are invalid?
    
    And if you acknowledge that there were ethical breaches and such, why is it OK to choose not to try him as opposed to attempting to correct those errors? Furthermore why should he be able to skate by because you think a trial may not be fair? But I disagree that it would be unfair because it is based on a jury that is given the official evidence and is not allowed to follow the media during the trial, as all trials are. It isn't based on the court of public opinion.

38. Posted at December 1, 2014, 9:35 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    32
    
    My opinion is irrelevant; the only people whose opinion on the case matters (the jury) decided that there wasn't sufficient evidence. I don't pretend to believe the system is perfect, but we can't pick and choose when it works and when it doesn't. Either we accept the rulings of all juries, or we invalidate all of them. In my opinion, we're better off accepting the good with the bad on the premise that in aggregate, they are good. After all, it's a jury of peers so if they aren't good, an unfair ruling would be apropos (in expectation, they'd get the same shoddy treatment they dole onto others).
    
    Nowhere did I say that invalidates the posters. Entirely different from the failure to indict. Convoluting the two is fallacious.

39. Posted at December 1, 2014, 9:46 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Ha. Fellatio

40. Posted at December 2, 2014, 11:42 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    The problem is that all the people who are angry at Ferguson and are saying "we just want indictment, we dont want the DW to go straight to jail" are lying to themselves. Remember George Zimmerman last year? He was indicted, he went to trial. THERE WERE STILL ANGRY PROTESTS. A jury reviewed all the evidence, and he (rightfully) walked. AND PEOPLE WERE STILL ANGRY. Because this is the real truth: a lot of people, mostly black people, are very angry. And yes, they have a lot to be angry about. But DW, just like GZ, is not guilty of the rampant poverty and crime affecting black communities. The people in this forum saying that "its much more than Ferguson" is the problem: the people that are angry wanted to indict DW to punish him for the entire racial history of the US. Had he been indicted and had he walked, there would still be protests. had he been indicted and given 5 years in prison instead of 25, there would still have been protests. I very much agree with the above commentator that says that these problems in the black community will continue for a long, long time.

41. Posted at December 3, 2014, 12:13 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    http://aattp.org/tim-wise-pens-brilliant-editorial-on-ferguson-most-white-americans-are-completely-oblivious/
    
    I'm just going to leave this here for all the ignorance I'm seeing displayed on this post. As an black alum, and a recent one at that, I'm truly disgusted with reaction of some of the commenters on this post.
    
    "On a related note, why should I or anyone else respect someone who can't behave in a decent way? We want them to behave like real human beans, so let's incentivize that by giving them what they want when they chimp out. That'll totally convince them to join the 21st century."
    
    Please go to some of your classmates, ones that look like me, and don't talk--LISTEN to what they are saying.
    
    And while you're at it, some of you guys need to take several seats with all the nonsense I see abounding here, and with people's reactions to the Black Lives Matters poster.
    
    Because point blank--Black. Lives. Matter.
    
    Exhausted and Angered MIT'13

42. Posted at December 3, 2014, 12:42 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I like to remind myself that one day the Earth will be engulfed by the Sun. Humans will probably be long gone by then. The fate of our galaxy and universe is also not a pretty one. In the end, nothing matters. Billions of people gone with the wind.

43. Posted at December 3, 2014, 12:50 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    ALL WE ARE IS DUST IIIIIIN THE WIIIiiiiIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNDDD

44. Posted at December 3, 2014, 1:08 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    To all those who say "they don't know how to act better", "they are incapable of forming a socially acceptable response", "they are tragically hopeless and can't help themselves"...do you not have any black friends? At this wonderful institution called MIT and in this level of elite academia, have you not encountered any black people who do "act better", who spend their time and efforts constructing "socially acceptable responses", who are not "tragically hopeless" and who do "help themselves"? I am scared to receive the answers to that, but can you honestly say that you haven't? There is no one? You have not met any black engineers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, writers, thinkers, architects, philanthropists, financial consultants, classmates? If so, is it really fair to address them in the manner that you are? Because that is exactly what you are doing. You see, it is this rhetoric that makes black people (of all backgrounds) angry. It is this rhetoric that continues to prove why racism is still an issue in this country. Instead of being addressed like individuals, there continues to be stereotyping and mass generalizations that heavily inform how black people are interacted with in society. Regardless of what many of you may think or believe there are many people in the black community who do the above things, and should be treated and talked about as such. And true, there are others who don't, but STILL deserve to be treated and talked about better than many of you are addressing them here.
    
    We are humans. No one is perfect. All of us have faced varying levels of suffering and pain in our lives. And how have we gotten through them, and grown from them? By discussing our issues with people who care. Some issues we sob through, others we yell through, while others we talk calmly through. Yet someone listened in spite of our emotions. No said "Stop crying" or "stop talking about it" or "stop being angry". Someone may have encouraged you to move forward, but no one belittled you during the process. Honestly, that is just disrespectful, and it makes you feel worse. It creates more hurt, and it makes you afraid to open up. We made it through our pains and losses because someone actually showed they cared. Not just talked about it. Or gave a lecture on how to get over ourselves when we were hurt. Additionally to actually grow, you cannot ignore, forget, or repress the issue. Neither can you stay silent because whatever issues you don't deal with ALWAYS comes back to haunt you in the end. If we do that to fix individual problems...how much more should we be doing to fix our larger societal ones? In my eyes, this is exactly where we are in America with regards to racism and social injustices. The issues of the past and present were not discussed and they are HAUNTING us. So please, let's start start dealing with people to overcome these societal issues instead of a race.

45. Posted at December 3, 2014, 2:16 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @41 As a white alum, I'm disgusted that you're disgusted.

46. Posted at December 3, 2014, 3:23 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    gosh I came here late.
    
    BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER BLACK LIVES MATTER
    
    You mad? Come suck my Black dick.

47. Posted at December 3, 2014, 9:49 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @46 That's all you people can do, scream a few buzzwords and you think you're changing things? Just like feminists and their CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE blah blah blah
    
    Nothing's changed, and you deserve that.

48. Posted at December 3, 2014, 11:48 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    47 why does anyone deserve that?

49. Posted at December 3, 2014, 12:50 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @46
    
    Thank you for showing EXACTLY why we owe you respect! You, Sir, are a wonderful example to your race.

50. Posted at December 3, 2014, 12:59 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @49
    
    Because each individual black person must be an example or poster child for an entire race of people? Name me a poor black example and i'll name you 100 worse white ones.. but that'd be petty lol.

51. Posted at December 3, 2014, 1:45 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Seems to me that unless you want to argue that blacks are significantly inferior genetically, there's no way you can respond to the ferguson riots with "they're going about this the wrong way so we shouldn't have to listen to them"

52. Posted at December 3, 2014, 2:02 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @51 The fuck are you talking about? How does what you say make any sense? To use a white people example, I could totally say that responding to a sports game victory with riot is going about it in the wrong way so we shouldn't listen to them isn't remotely hinting that white people are genetically inferior.
    
    I'm literally baffled your logical reasoning.

53. Posted at December 3, 2014, 2:03 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    51
    
    You've got it exactly backwards. If you consider blacks to be significantly genetically inferior, then yes, they wouldn't know better and you couldn't hold them to a higher standard. The rioting would be the best they're capable of, and you'd have to accept that for what it is.
    
    However, if you consider blacks to be on par with others races, then it is not only possible but vital to hold them to a higher standard. If you don't, you contradict yourself by admitting that yes they can do better but no they don't have to (because they're different/inferior/whatever other rationalization).
    
    Looking with disdain upon the rioters is a compliment to black people, in that we believe that they are, in fact, better than that and can hold themselves to a higher standard of discourse. But, if not, you have to believe they are not on the same level and thusly are not deserving of respect.

54. Posted at December 3, 2014, 2:03 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @48 Because they're not doing anything productive so why should anything productive come out of chanting buzzwords?

55. Posted at December 3, 2014, 3:30 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Oh? @24 someone posting with their MIT address finally had the balls to admit that they were 13, who called black people niggers and chimps?
    
    Please, for the love of humanity, admins of isawyou, _report this piece of shit to the MIT administration_, or you're racists, too.

56. Posted at December 3, 2014, 4:51 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @55 I'm neither 24 nor 13, but from what I can tell 13 was just using the same terminology used by 11 as a rebuttal. Additionally, the "MIT" just means it was posted from a MIT network, not using their certificate, so there's not much to be done.
    
    I do agree that people should be careful about what they say both online and off, and shouldn't post offensive things for the sake of offense.

57. Posted at December 3, 2014, 5:17 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Fuck. I go to school with a bunch of fucking racists. I guess that's what I get for picking a university where you get humanities credit by building websites rather than learning about history or politics or social issues.

58. Posted at December 3, 2014, 5:22 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @55 You clearly don't know how reality works, you don't get to report and punish others for hurting your FEEEEEEELZ

59. Posted at December 3, 2014, 5:24 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @55 Aside from your stupid butthurt, people won't take you seriously because you don't realize that 11 used chimps first.

60. Posted at December 3, 2014, 9:42 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @54, regardless of "how they're going about it", to say that an oppressed group does not deserve change is the same as saying they deserve the situation society places them in.
    
    unless you think that people of color and women don't suffer oppression.
    
    either way, I hope you find a way to fix your broken and bigoted views.

61. Posted at December 3, 2014, 10:09 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @55
    
    No, you don't understand. Being racist is NOT a crime. There are no thought crimes here, unless we are already living in George Orwell's 1984 though we are getting closer and closer everyday. Being a racist and hurting someone because they are black IS a crime. But someone having different opinions than you is not a crime. And you wanting to punish someone for their thoughts, which they have not acted upon, is amazingly narrowminded, intolerant, oppresive and disgusting.
    
    So. Preach tolerance, then practice tolerance. The end.

62. Posted at December 3, 2014, 11:38 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @61 +1 This is the harsh but real world we live in. If you try to ban dissenting thought, one day that will bite you in the ass.

63. Posted at December 4, 2014, 2:10 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I think no matter what opinion we have on the issue in Ferguson, we can all agree that ISawYou's reply system is in drastic need of an update.

64. Posted at December 4, 2014, 2:16 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @63 I don't, what's the problem with the reply system?

65. Posted at December 4, 2014, 2:32 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    "Connect the dots: Racial justice is economic justice is environmental justice is climate justice is social justice. Materialism blends with militarism blends with patriarchy blends with racism blends with classism." Hahaha what the fuck

66. Posted at December 4, 2014, 4:34 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    who wants sum fuk

67. Posted at December 4, 2014, 11:29 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Damn this thread sucks. I can't believe how racist or bigoted some of the people here are. Reminds me of MIT Confession #1424 where some people don't really understand that many minority groups (race, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, etc) are oppressed and treated unfairly in many many ways. If you disagree with the posters, or any other cause of the like, just don't be an asshole about it and actually listen to what they're trying to say.

68. Posted at December 4, 2014, 12:00 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I think a lot of the posts in this thread that swing to one side or another are confusing what's "understandable" with what's "excusable." I understand how people have reacted to the continuing reports of black men being killed for so little justification (speaking in general here) and I don't condone the violence and the rioting by opportunists. But you can't overlook one part of that for the other or you miss the big picture! Black people don't lose their right to be heard by everyone in this nation even if the only outlet they can find is public demonstrations that sometimes turns violent, and they don't get a free pass when someone does get violent.
    
    There is a real problem with cops being quick to shoot black men, but there's so much frenzy around the issue...

69. Posted at December 4, 2014, 11:06 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    If you want to argue about Mike Brown, start by reading some of the evidence in the case. You've probably read science reporting by mainstream media and so you know that they regularly get things wrong, so go to primary sources, such as this index of the testimony presented to the grand jury.
    http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/the-testimony-the-grand-jury-heard-in-the-michael-brown/html_47d95368-a8f2-5ae1-9173-6653c15d0f0e.html
    
    
    If you want to argue about the general phenomenon of police shooting unarmed black men, here is some video evidence.
    http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2014/12/police-killing-unarmed-minority-men-on-video-with-impunity-is-not-new.html

70. Posted at December 5, 2014, 1:46 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I go to the best school in the world, but all the students are just as fucking stupid as the rest of the world.
    
    http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/126/314/3cd8a33a.png

71. Posted at December 6, 2014, 10:07 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    If you were a cop, what would you have done?

72. Posted at December 6, 2014, 8:01 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    There's a reason most of us aren't cops, and that reason is that most people would make horrible cops. Cops are supposed to be better trained and better able to deal with stressful situations.

73. Posted at December 6, 2014, 8:31 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @71 I would have moved to an all-white neighborhood, so when I have to shoot or subdue someone angry mobs don't burn down the community.

74. Posted at December 6, 2014, 10:44 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    WHY CANT I HOLD ALL THIS PLATINUM MAD???

75. Posted at December 6, 2014, 11:28 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @70 #NotAllStudents

76. Posted at December 7, 2014, 5:08 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @70, it is clearly not even close to the best school in the world. People here are actually quite a bit dumber than most think, and this thread does nothing but support that notion.

77. Posted at December 9, 2014, 3:15 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    47 and 49, you owe me no respect. In fact, I don't give a fuck about what you think because you mean nothing to me. Did I piss you off? yay!
    
    once again, come and suck my BIG BLACK DICK...
    
    BLACK LIVES MATTER. If you see any reason to support a judicial system that continues to marginalize groups that have lesser political powers in the so-called 'greatest nation on earth', then you belong to the 1600s. Wake up from your slumbers you all.

78. Posted at December 9, 2014, 9:42 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @77
    
    "you owe me no respect"
    
    
    and that's why you get none sweetie! Have fun with the cops ;)

79. Posted at December 9, 2014, 11:34 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @77 nah,
    
    I will have fun with yo mama. :)

80. Posted at December 9, 2014, 12:56 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @78 Shots fired ohhhh shots fired again OHHHHHHH

81. Posted at December 9, 2014, 8:39 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Can I be real? Almost all of the people I know who are defending DW and the nonindictment are white.
    
    Can you please just maybe possibly somewhat kinda acknowledge that this could have something to do with privilege (I know people get angryface and deny its existence, but c'mon, it's a real thing)

82. Posted at December 10, 2014, 12:33 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I mean't @78
    
    
    -77 and 79

83. Posted at December 10, 2014, 2:48 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @81, if you can be real and possibly kinda acknowledge that it could also have something to do with victim mentality and race baiting from the other side

84. Posted at December 12, 2014, 4:19 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

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85. Posted at December 12, 2014, 9:13 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    You guys are fucking idiots... Mike Brown was just the popular catalyst of the time, but as someone pointed out, there's a much bigger problem of racial discrimination and in some cases death because of it. Eric Garner, whose video we saw, who was killed with an unsanctioned chokehold; the twelve year old boy in Cleveland that was shot to death in the street for playing with a toy gun... Geez. Its not on the black minority to change, they don't deserve what's being done to them, nor what has been done to them as a race for the last 400 years. It's dispicable. Fucking grotesque. Racism, while not a crime, is un-fucking-acceptable. This is 2014. Who cares if he was charging at the guy, anyhow? You don't gun the guy down if he's unarmed. That's not how it works. My dads a cop, you're taught not to shoot unless they are armed, not just because "he looks like a demon" or you felt threatened. Darren Wilson's bullshit argument... Let a black cop kill his wife, let him feel the same pain he brought upon the Brown family, the Garner family, the family of the twelve year old boy in Cleveland, and the countless others gunned down by white cops in 2014, and I guarantee you he'll be sorry then.

86. Posted at December 12, 2014, 9:14 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    You guys are fucking idiots... Mike Brown was just the popular catalyst of the time, but as someone pointed out, there's a much bigger problem of racial discrimination and in some cases death because of it. Eric Garner, whose video we saw, who was killed with an unsanctioned chokehold; the twelve year old boy in Cleveland that was shot to death in the street for playing with a toy gun... Geez. Its not on the black minority to change, they don't deserve what's being done to them, nor what has been done to them as a race for the last 400 years. It's dispicable. Fucking grotesque. Racism, while not a crime, is un-fucking-acceptable. This is 2014. Who cares if he was charging at the guy, anyhow? You don't gun the guy down if he's unarmed. That's not how it works. My dads a cop, you're taught not to shoot unless they are armed, not just because "he looks like a demon" or you felt threatened. Darren Wilson's bullshit argument... Let a black cop kill his wife, let him feel the same pain he brought upon the Brown family, the Garner family, the family of the twelve year old boy in Cleveland, and the countless others gunned down by white cops in 2014, and I guarantee you he'll be sorry then.

87. Posted at December 16, 2014, 1:33 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @85, as a cops kid then you should know how to NOT to interact with police then and what constitutes "being armed" and see why your dad would probably react the same given the knowledge and time restrictions a few of these officers had. An officer just needs reasonable suspicion of you being armed (like you match the description of a reported armed man and you make a sudden movement to your person) to justify an imminent threat to themselves or others.
    
    If you assault an officer and then move to look as if you are to approach him aggressively, it is reasonable to expect you will be subject to force regardless of your or his/her color.
    
    If you are being approached by police under suspicion of carrying a weapon and being violent, and you make sudden movements or reach for anything on your person, you can expect a descalation tactic. If theyre close enough, it might just be hands-on descalation; if not, taser or gun. If you're lucky, they decide to bet their life on you - a stranger of unknown moral fiber - and hesitate, see how it plays out. Sometimes those hesitations cost them their lives. Just the mere "sometimes" aspect of that part of the job is enough to inspire doubt or cynicism in people you interact with as a cop. Because sometimes that's sometimes means you're not coming home to your family - your wife, your husband, your children. Now take that fear - truly try to imagine having to make a decision that potentially ends your life - and give yourself fractions of a second to now make that decision as to whether you trust a stranger who for all intents and purposes is deranged, violent, whatever. Would you shoot? I would. No matter their color - whit, black, purple, fucking rainbow with gold sparkles. All I see is someone most likely to take everything I love away from me.
    
    Police are human. They sometimes have very limited time and often limited knowledge to make life and death decisions. Are there bad ones? Certainly, just like there are bad people in every profession. Its very very unfortunate when they end up in the ones with power and a means to harm people - and there should be improvements to the hiring processes when one is found to have slipped through. But two out of three of your examples are not such an example.
    
    Is anyone saying all three werent tragedies? Never. (At least I hope people are not.) Every single one ended a life and ruined countless others. No one deserves to die. But such a statement is a double edged sword.
    
    Again, they're taught to shoot when there is adequate evidence that a suspect is armed or is an immediate threat to the life of an officer or victim and no other option is reasonably available. The "21 foot rule" is often INformally taught as the deciding factor when extreme force is justified. If you're reasonably thought to be armed and you make an aggressive move towards an officer within a certain zone (so you threaten him physically) you might be shot/tazed/maced as a result; depends on how lucky the officer is feeling or how much they trust your intentions.

88. Posted at December 16, 2014, 2:27 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @87 bullshit, if this, if that...so many ifs...
    
    A police officer should NOT get away with ending someone else's life because he/she made a mistake/made the wrong call, and then not even have to go to trial to provide evidence to support his/her claims. To those whom much is given, much is expected. This case would have definitely gone to trial if it were in a place where people, especially white people, weren't treated preferentially. But of course this is America! Surprise!
    
    -Tell me you would type that bullshit up if your relative were ever a victim of police brutality.
    
    DW was left off the hook even though a lot of things did not add up in his testimony.
    PUT yourself in Mike Brown's shoes:
    1) An officer just shot and wounded you during a brawl at his car. You are sane, but after having ran a few feet from his car, you decided to run back and 'charge' at the officer even though you know you are unarmed....makes so much sense right?
    
    Several witnesses didn't corroborate the officer's story, but you've CHOSEN to believe it. Why am I not surprised?
    
    Y'all need to wake up and smell the coffee. The US justice system needs fixing! Vicious racists who continue to tamper with justice should be held f-ing accountable. But the question is by whom? Who would hold them accountable when people like you make concrete efforts to avoid accepting issues that are crystal clear to objective observers. You guys even have privately owned for-profit prisons for crying out loud....

89. Posted at December 16, 2014, 8:41 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @88
    1) You know what "makes sense?" Fucking fighting a cop to begin with.
    2) Witnesses have recanted their stories that did not corroborate with the officer's after independent autopsies proved them wrong. I'm not listening to the cop, I'm listening to evidence.
    
    You need to fucking wake up.

90. Posted at December 16, 2014, 11:49 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Nothing's going to change.
    
    Grand jury decisions will stand unless new evidence comes forward in any of the cases.
    
    Police force demographics won't change either, because the problem isn't with the selection process. It lies with the demographics of the applicant pool.
    
    If you have a culture that advocates a FUCK DA POLICE mentality, then surprise surprise, not many people of that culture will elect to become police officers, lest they incur the scorn and disdain of their cultural peers.
    
    It's like when tech companies publish their employee demographics. They keep promising to increase sexual and racial "diversity", but the numbers never change much, because their applicant pool is what's skewed, and that stems from cultural pressures that no one wants to address.

91. Posted at December 17, 2014, 2:04 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @89 You, my friend, are dead asleep and need to fucking wake up!
    
    Once again, you completely miss the point and veer off into mentioning irrelevant stuff. Keep emotions aside and read my comments about putting yourself, as a smart MIT student, in Mike Brown's shoes. How does an unarmed teenager charging towards a police officer, who had just wounded him from a GUN DISCHARGE sound to you? What gets to me is that some dolts actually believe the case should not have gone to trial at all. It is crystal clear that the prosecutors who worked with the jurors acted very unprofessionally in many ways: from intentionally misinforming the jurors about Missouri laws on police self-defence, e.t.c e.tc. The evidence presented from both sides in court weren't conclusive, yes, and that's why the case should have gone to trial. Period.
    
    
    What you meant to say was quite unclear. People fight with police officers everywhere. White people do that shit- they resist arrests and what not and don't get shot when its obvious that they aren't armed... but that's besides the point. What transpired before the Ferguson incident doesn't matter as much as what transpired afterwards.
    
    1) Brown's body was left baking in the sun for hours after he was killed.
    2) The police department did nothing about the case until they were pressured by public outcries. WHY? because too many police officers don't give a fuck about black lives. We've got some good cops, yeah, but there are freaking vicious racists/ignoramuses out there who are police officers and continue to make the lives of many minorities unbearable.
    
    
    You should know that nothing is new about police killing black men extrajudicially and getting away with it; it's been happening in America since the 1600s. Nothing is new about the racists in US courts and how they give black men much harsher sentences for the same crimes as their white counterparts. Nothing is new about your knee-jerk reaction to defend a flawed system or dismiss the negative experiences of others as a mere consequence of their actions. What's new? We now have social media to expose the evils that are deeply rooted in the fabric of the so-called greatest nation on earth.
    
    There are other systemic issues that I won't delve into.
    
    In the mean time digest this shit.
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/12/12/where-race-relations-stand-america/iMoGIQk9Qe0vRoM64CZU8M/story.html?event=event25

92. Posted at December 19, 2014, 4:02 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I sometimes forget that I graduated from a school full of racist assholes.

93. Posted at December 19, 2014, 6:13 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @92
    *full of people who understand statistics
    
    FTFY

94. Posted at December 19, 2014, 11:45 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @93
    B-BUT STATISTICS ARE RACIST*
    
    
    *UNLESS THEY SUPPORT MY AGENDA

95. Posted at December 21, 2014, 12:53 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Jesus christ there is a shitload of racist fucks here. Really sad to see things are just as bad as when I graduated.
    
    And about the question of "looting," beyond how that is used in a specifically racialized way (e.g. white people destroying things at sporting events is not looting):
    http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/in-defense-of-looting/

96. Posted at December 21, 2014, 3:43 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

    I'll just leave this here.
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2851061/Elderly-man-attacked-oxygen-supply-carjacked-run-protesters-Ferguson.html

97. Posted at December 21, 2014, 4:44 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    Minus the Garner chokehold case, this seems like a black culture problem. Similar to the Islamic immigrant culture problem regarding the high incidence of child rape/grooming in Rotherham and Sweden. Though thankfully we have more freedom of speech than UK and Sweden, so it won't get that bad.

98. Posted at December 21, 2014, 7:56 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @95 That was fucking retarded. Saying that committing crime to grab the attention of the "white supremacist media" justifies the actions of the 9/11 bombers who killed 3000 people to get the West's attention. Look at how well that worked out for them, and see how well this strategy will work out for blacks.
    
    No excuse for crime. If you're here to seriously defend criminal actions, you should probably punch yourself in the face and leave.

99. Posted at December 21, 2014, 8:02 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

    @11 Regardless of skin color or any other attribute, if someone can only let loose their pent up frustration through violence, then they are a tantrum throwing child that I literally look down on as a more grown up person. If it so happens that a lot of black people are like that, too bad, guess I'm a racist because I'm not going to look down on white people or other people of other races for behaving like shit while not doing the same for black people because black people are somehow justified in acting like babies.
    
    Inb4butthesocialeconomicfactorzz, there are plenty of poor people, race disregarded, who can act civilized.

100. Posted at December 21, 2014, 8:39 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     100 GET

101. Posted at December 22, 2014, 11:38 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @ 97
     
     
     +1

102. Posted at December 22, 2014, 2:19 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @06,97,99,100 and 101.
     
     I hope you all go back to the shit hole where you belong.
     @97
     Nobody is saying violence is justified- And it has nothing to do with 'black culture' you dumb motherfuckers. Sometimes passions get heated up and people, regardless of race or gender, resort to using violence to express grievances. For example, white people in the sixties attacked and killed blacks in the most violent ways even when demonstrations were completely non-violent. Did anyone write/say anything about 'white culture being violent' then? White racists in government offices created programs/policies that continue to limit blacks' access to resources that would enable them to equally participate in the pursuit of the 'American dream'. For example, policies that promoted housing discrimination and many more. Did people write articles suggesting that 'white culture' was the explanation for that insanity.
     
     @97
     Its these flimsy and overly simplistic generalizations from someone who's supposed to be smart that gets me. What's the relationship between blacks, who have been in America even before this nation was born in the late 1700s, to recent immigrants in sweden, and the problems you highlighted... what has islam got to do with 'raping children'?...what do you know about black culture? How many black people have you tried to talk to about these issues? Do you even have any black friend? I won't waste one more second on your ignorant arse. Go get some education kid.
     
     
     You all conveniently picked up what to feel angered by. You don't criticize the criminals in uniform who continue to kill blacks with impunity. You don't question how civilized employees of media outlets are when they demonize black victims of violence as rogues and touts and paint white serial killers as 'people with troubled upbringing'...
     It must feel really good to be in your position right now, judge. You don't feel irked by the death of a fellow human being, who was left baking in the sun for hours after he was shot and killed, but feel justified to discuss about how those who felt angered by that atrocity chose to show their frustrations. criticize all or just shut the fuck up!
     
     Black culture is diverse,deep, spiritual and rich. It has made/continue to make lasting impacts on American mainstream culture. Come out of the woods,get enlightened, and stop making highly ignorant comments. The tiny few who rioted in Ferguson are not representative of the thousands of blacks, who engaged in peaceful protests all over the country.

103. Posted at December 22, 2014, 10:50 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @102
     "EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME MUST BE [insert emotionally charged epithet to discredit their point]!!!1!"
     
     Also, who cares that he was left there, it was a crime scene genius. Let's just mess with the evidence so that it's not uncomfortable for someone who's already dead. Yeah, that's the ticket.
     
     The filter you view the world through must be incredible if you think the media is anti-black. Even moreso, the government. Ever heard of affirmative action? Hiring quotas? And now, tell me, how many of those laws (or anything similar) exist that benefit white people? Not a single one. Zero.
     
     "Da gubmint hates us!" Bullshit. They just realized that if they cry and act the victim, bleeding heart pussies will try to make them feel better by giving them unfair advantages. The US government is decidedly, without any ambiguity or question, pro-black. Unless you are illiterate and cannot read the laws, you cannot disagree.
     
     Oh, and as for Sweden, check out how that's going for them. They won't learn, but hopefully other countries will learn from their mistake.

104. Posted at December 23, 2014, 12:11 am by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @102
     
     Hi 102, I'm 101 here. Will say a few things:
     
     1. I'm a triple minority here, so, not white.
     2. I grew up in a black neighborhood amongst black friends whom I love as family. My school was upwards of 80% black by student population.
     3. Since I went to a black school, I have taken African American history and social studies for YEARS starting in high school AND in MIT. As a matter of fact, if you've taken some Black Studies classes at MIT, you've probably seen me there.
     
     
     I'm saying this because you're making a lot of generalizations about people who don't agree with you. Do I believe there's a problem when someone, of any race, can kill another with impunity? Absolutely. Can I also, simulatanouesly, believe there's an inherent problem with black culture? Yes, because there is. Notice that doesn't qualify as racism unless you have such knee-jerk reactions that you see racism everywhere.
     
     Do I know black culture and understand its vast and diverse and rich with such literary geniuses as Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou and Lorraine Hansberry? Yes, I do. But I also do know that no other minority culture in the united states glorifies violence like the black culture. Go take a look at TV and watch what tops the charts in BET. The stereotypes exist for a reason. Bill O'Reilly said something incredibly cruel the other day- that instead of wearing "I can't breathe" shirts protesters should wear "don't get pregnant at 14." Now, that was an unbelieveably stupid way to put it but it's true. Go look at black culture and the baby daddy problem. I went to a black school, do you know how many of my peers from high school are already moms? Do you know how many became moms WHILE STILL in high school? I'll tell you: a lot, a lot, a lot, A LOT more than all the other white/hispanic schools in my town. The black schools were stereotyped to be the worst because they were.
     
     I'm a minority too and I care about my people. But just like the hippie protesters from the 60s said they protested against the U.S. because they loved their country, so too, you can be critical of your ethnic culture because you LOVE it and you want your people to succeed. There is absolutely something wrong with black culture. Is it true that structural racism exists? Absolutely. But it is also true that blacks are the most uneducated and the most pronve to violence. Black on black violence is through the roof. Blacks fill our jails.
     
     In order to solve a problem, you first have to admit there is one. Black culture needs to change along with the structural racism of our society. It's a two-way street problem.

105. Posted at December 23, 2014, 12:13 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @102
     
     >I hope you all go back to the shit hole where you belong.
     I hope you continue flinging insults.
     
     >For example, white people in the sixties attacked and killed blacks in the most violent ways even when demonstrations were completely non-violent. Did anyone write/say anything about 'white culture being violent' then?
     1) That was the sixties. I'll agree racism was much worse back then, but that doesn't say anything about racism now.
     2) Black culture doesn't get its bad reputation from isolated cases. It gets it from statistics; the culmination of isolated cases. Blacks make up 12.6% of the population, yet:
     
     Of the homicide offenders for whom race was known, 53.4 percent were black, 44.3 percent were white, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
     Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide
     
     Of the rape/sexual assault offenders for whom race was known, 36.5 percent were black, 61.4 percent were white, and 2.0 percent were of other races.
     Source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf
     
     You can try to say this is a poor people problem instead of a black culture problem, but that doesn't magically separate the two. The culture of black people is affected by the prevalence of their poverty. Their poverty also doesn't exempt them from violent crime and rape. If poor people in general also commit these crimes, then they're just as in the wrong.
     
     The only reason for citing black culture instead of poor people here is that blacks complain comparatively more when they're over-represented in these kinds of incidents. Just as you have to use the 80% rule in the context of applicant demographics, you have to take incidents like these in the context of offender demographics. If blacks are over-represented as offenders, it's expected they're going to be over-represented here as well. The real question is whether the levels of over-representation are comparable.
     
     >White racists in government offices created programs/policies that continue to limit blacks' access to resources that would enable them to equally participate in the pursuit of the 'American dream'. For example, policies that promoted housing discrimination and many more.
     If you feel current policies are unjust, correct them on a case-by-case basis through your democratic representatives.
     
     >Did people write articles suggesting that 'white culture' was the explanation for that insanity.
     If it's a modern issue, people probably did write such articles. You're going to have to be more specific here.
     
     >What's the relationship between blacks, who have been in America even before this nation was born in the late 1700s, to recent immigrants in sweden, and the problems you highlighted... what has islam got to do with 'raping children'?
     From 1997 to 2013 in Rotherham, at least 1400 children, largely white females, were sexually exploited by immigrants, largely Pakistani males. Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated. The police and child services that should have protected these children did not for fear of being called racist; they instead elected to look the other way and cover their tracks. Sentences that were handed down were light. The people that tried to speak out were given "diversity" training. The immigrant situation in Sweden is less pronounced, but more widespread.
     
     It's a cautionary tale about the dangers of letting political correctness give minorities a blank check for crime. Islamic immigrants should be allowed to practice Islam, but only to the extent allowed by law. If their culture condones or pardons the rape of children, it's reprehensible but legal as long as they don't actually do it. But if they rape children, they should be tried and sentenced. If this results in a disproportionate number of Islamic immigrants being tried and sentenced, that is the result of rape culture being prevalent in Islamic immigrant culture.
     
     >what do you know about black culture?
     Most of it comes from public high school. It's a different story for MIT's black culture.
     
     >How many black people have you tried to talk to about these issues?
     Your social life and career can be destroyed if a sufficiently-motivated person perceives you as being racist, regardless of the extent to which the label is warranted. Not to mention physical threats. For the black people I know, they're largely not associated with the negative aspects of black culture, so I don't bother talking to them about it.
     
     >Do you even have any black friend?
     I do.
     
     >You all conveniently picked up what to feel angered by. You don't criticize the criminals in uniform who continue to kill blacks with impunity.
     I criticize the cop who choked Eric Garner for using outdated restraint methods that are no longer supported. He should be tried for his negligence. I feel the other two cops were within their rights when they acted. Other "criminals in uniform" should be addressed on a case-by-case basis.
     
     >You don't question how civilized employees of media outlets are when they demonize black victims of violence as rogues and touts and paint white serial killers as 'people with troubled upbringing'
     Media outlets are guilty of demonizing both sides because it's more profitable to cater to a specific group with a specific agenda. Which side depends on the outlet.
     
     >It must feel really good to be in your position right now, judge.
     Not really.
     
     >You don't feel irked by the death of a fellow human being
     I feel irked about every human death ever.
     
     But really, I've been desensitized to human death unless I personally know the deceased. Their race is irrelevant; I don't really feel emotional unless I know them.
     
     >who was left baking in the sun for hours after he was shot and killed
     The timeline and reasons for this delay have already been addressed:
     
     http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/us/michael-brown-a-bodys-timeline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html
     
     If you're going to make a statement about it, be specific.
     
     >but feel justified to discuss about how those who felt angered by that atrocity chose to show their frustrations.
     Protesters who commit a crime are not exempt from that crime by virtue of being a protester.
     
     >criticize all or just shut the fuck up!
     I criticize what I feel needs to be criticized among the relevant set of things to criticize.
     
     >Black culture is diverse,deep, spiritual and rich. It has made/continue to make lasting impacts on American mainstream culture.
     There are good and bad parts to black culture, just as there are good and bad parts to Islamic culture. Not solely one, not solely the other, but a mix.
     
     >The tiny few who rioted in Ferguson are not representative of the thousands of blacks, who engaged in peaceful protests all over the country.
     And the tiny few "criminals in uniform" who kill blacks due to racial bias are not representative of the entire U.S. police force. To make such a generalization, you would need statistics to back it up.
     
     Before that though, for each isolated case you need proof positive that there was racial bias in the first place. If you feel a civil rights violation has taken place that hasn't been properly addressed by the courts, you should petition the FBI to investigate.

106. Posted at December 23, 2014, 12:03 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @102 95 seems to say violence is justified. Hell, the fucking article she links literally says "in defense of looting." And I reiterate that there is no excuse to resorting to violence to express grievances. Are you a fucking child? If you give black people a pass for resorting to violence because they don't have any other means of expressing their grievances (which is bullshit anyway), then you are also giving terrorists a pass for killing innocent people because they too don't have any other means of expressing their grievances. You either are in favor of a world where people can kill their way out of their sorrows, or you're in favor of a more civilized society.

107. Posted at December 23, 2014, 5:06 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     102 here.
     
     103- You don't count because you obviously know very little about the reasons behind the existence of some of the programs you mentioned.
     " And now, tell me, how many of those laws (or anything similar) exist that benefit white people? Not a single one. Zero." -This part made me laugh so hard.
     Were you asleep all these while? America has always existed for the good of white people. Shit you don't even need quotas to get anything here in America because of white privilege. You get a free passport to participate equally in the pursuit of the American dream if you are white, so please spare me the silly arguments against quotas. As recently as 40-something years ago...very hardworking and smart blacks literally had to be escorted by military personnels just to attend good schools in America.
     http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/central-high-school-integration
     
     And bitch please stop comparing Sweden and the US. You are obviously comparing two very different societies and problems. 1) American Blacks are not recent immigrants 2) Sweden did not establish Jim Crow, mastermind Slavery, sponsor Phrenology, lynch people, use blacks in the Tuskegee study, participate in Housing discrimination, enact the 'war on drugs', create 'stop and frisks', create segregation....do you want me to continue...?
     
     I recommend reading A case for reparations. Read and be knowledgeable boy.
     http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
     
     104- You re-wrote what made me respond to you. Black culture DOES NOT glorify violence!! Why don't you provide concrete proofs to support your stance? You instead veered-off to start talking about baby mamas. The problems that have shaken the stability of many poor black families, and that have resulted in a lot of social ills- teenage pregnancy for example, are largely economic and not cultural. American blacks don't glorify those ills. The issues in black communities today are consequences of the incredibly terrible socio-economic situations they find themselves- big thanks to Big daddy, America! Organizations like the NAACP and many others create programs that continue to educate POOR BLACKS and youths about the consequences of gangsterism, teenage-pregnancy e.t.c. so don't give me that glorification bullshit. Organizers of the BET put what makes money; its all about what brings in the benjamins baby, but there are other programs like BEtv that educate black people. It is incredibly dangerous to make such sweeping statements about people's cultures. Yes there are existing issues in black communities that need to be addressed, but non of them are 'glorified'. Black culture does not glorify violence. I can't say that enough.
     
     105- My apologies for the insult. Ya know some times emotions run high.
     Just so you know- racism in the sixties= racism today. What's the difference? People are not as explicit in displaying it anymore and that makes me sad, because as Shakespeare puts it- 'There are hidden daggers in men's smiles'.
     
     I agree that extreme political correctness is a bitch, but I simply do not see any similarity between the black experience of intense oppression and the problems in Sweden.
     
     You see what I don't get about you criminal statistics enthusiasts is how you fail to distinguish between what these numbers mean and how they should factor into how you interact with blacks in your neighborhoods. Most people fail to see black felons as individuals and I just don't get why.
     
     How many homicide cases were there in total? 12,765. How many were by blacks: 6816, How many blacks are there in the US? close to 40 million. So there are about 39 million+ blacks who didn't kill anybody in 2012.... why did you bring up that stat? was it to show that there was something wrong with black culture when 0.0001704% of them committed homicide? EPIC FAIL.
     
     was it to show that you are more likely to be killed by a black person or what?
     30.2% of the deaths were executed by acquaintances and even 12.5 % were by family members so what are you talking about? Statistics are a single story and give you an incomplete picture in cases like this.
     
     I am glad you guys responded the way you did. I really wish there was a safe space for non-blacks to discuss these issues with blacks here at MIT.

108. Posted at December 23, 2014, 11:44 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @107
     
     Calling me boy; projecting much? Also, nice strawman. The mystical magical ethereal white power machine rears its ugly head again! How can we possibly stop this unsatiable system that propagates white privilege by making more, less qualified, less optimal, black people get hired/accepted? Oh the humanity!
     
     Keep deluding yourself, it sadly seems to be working because the world continues to grow more and more set against white people.

109. Posted at December 24, 2014, 12:59 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @108,
     
     '...propagates white privilege by making more, less qualified, less optimal, black people get hired/accepted?'-LOL, another dumb and predictable point from a misguided fool. Your opinion is old and boring.
     Arguments ranging from blacks being 3/5th humans to those suggesting that blacks are inferior athletes and employees have been used since the 1600s. But you know what? No sensible person pays heed to such idiotic narratives. Shit, even Ben Carson was deemed inferior/less qualified, and sub-optimal by animals who think like you in the 70's. We've got nothing to prove/disprove to such racist motherfuckers because there's no factual basis for such claims.
     
     Black people and the world are not against white people. We are simply against low-lives like you, who assume a sense of superiority over others who are physically different from him. Listen to yourself call black people 'less optimal' and 'less qualified'- I guess you suffer from major self-esteem issues, because its those who have such problems that try to put others down just to feel better about themselves. It's also because of people like you that laws that mandate inclusiveness for all exist in the US.

110. Posted at December 24, 2014, 10:48 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @109
     
     Ah, continuing your tirade of "If it doesn't fit my story of the evil white man it must be false". Another strawman too. Did I say all black people are inferior? Nope, good try. But I did say that laws requiring quotas of black people necessarily involve underqualified black people getting in ahead of more qualified whites. If that weren't the case, the laws would be completely unnecessary because they'd get in regardless. Can't have you cake and eat it too, champ.
     
     How many of those laws exist today? You're right, your very exhaustive list mentioned all zero of them, because they don't exist. If you have problems with the 1600's, go fix the 1600's, not 2014.
     
     No factual basis? No sensible person? Talk to James Watson. You know, the guy who discovered DNA. He might understand a thing or two about genetics.
     
     Nice ad hominem, yawn, next. Childishly saying I have self esteem issues is so passe. Stay mad, it'll take you places.

111. Posted at December 24, 2014, 4:16 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @110 oh you wish I was mad. People like you make me laugh dude.
     
     "But I did say that laws requiring quotas of black people necessarily involve underqualified black people getting in ahead of more qualified whites."
     -give factual proofs or get the fuck out! Your views are overly simplistic and childish. You can't just make such silly conjectures and expect any sensible person to take you seriously. I mean, the same stupid arguments were used and are still being used against women joining the work force, especially STEM fields.
     
     Now dummy, lets see what actual research says:
     
     White racial preference is real:
     http://www.timwise.org/2013/03/flashback-affirmative-action-debate-2007-destroying-conservative-nonsense/
     
     Your point about black productivity is completely false!
     Note that there are more studies out there supporting this.
     https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/wdevel/v64y2014icp169-180.html
     
     White-sounding names gets you interviews:
     http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
     
     80% of job openings were never advertized, hence people
     landed jobs through networking. 'There were 3.6 million job openings at the end of 2012. About 80% of available jobs are never advertised.'-
     http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/04/17/7-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-your-job-search/
     
     How do you expect a system that was this explicit with its prejudice to magically change and become fair to blacks?
     http://racialinjustice.eji.org/timeline/1950s/
     
     Income inequality: Your explanation? Blacks are lazy.
     http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/01/07/5-facts-about-economic-inequality/
     
     Landing a job is more about networking:
     http://www.npr.org/2011/02/08/133474431/a-successful-job-search-its-all-about-networking
     
     
     James Watson,Franz Joseph Gall, and other scientists who made baseless comments that fit into the narratives people like you expect to see, are not taken seriously by reputable members of the scientific community. I am not surprised you felt the need to mention his name here. He's a an accomplished scientist, no doubt, but a brief look at his page on Wikipedia tells me how seriously academicians take his views: Provocative comments,check.
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson

112. Posted at December 24, 2014, 7:53 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @111
     
     "Your point about black productivity is completely false!"
     "Note that there are more studies out there supporting this."
     "https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/wdevel/v64y2014icp169-180.html"
     
     It's not such a clear story.
     
     https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/pubeco/v94y2010i1-2p16-29.html
     
     "Affirmative Action in Education: Evidence From Engineering College Admissions in India"
     
     "However, these benefits come at a cost. Our point estimates suggest that the marginal upper-caste entrant enjoys nearly twice the earnings level gain as the marginal lower-caste entrant. This finding illustrates the program's redistributive nature: it benefits the poor, but costs resources in absolute terms. One reason for this lower level gain is that a smaller fraction of lower-caste admits end up employed in engineering or advanced technical jobs."
     
     Now, the reason for this gap isn't entirely known. It could be lower-caste discrimination preventing them from getting jobs; it could be that lower-caste admits don't choose the same jobs. Other studies will have to assess this.
     
     The studies that you and I cite, however, probably can't be carried so easily from India to America and from such specific contexts to a more general setting.

113. Posted at December 24, 2014, 8:10 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @111,
     
     I am glad you highlighted how unrelated the study in India likely is to that in the US. 109 surmized that underqualified blacks are given jobs over qualified whites and I say that's the biggest pile of shit I have heard in a long time. Give me proof that supports that and not a completely unrelated study about Affirmative action in High Ed in India.
     
     I actually came here to post this:
     MLK on ' the other America' at Stanford University, 1967.
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3H978KlR20

114. Posted at December 24, 2014, 8:34 pm by F Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @113
     
     Both the study cited in @111 pertaining to Indian Railways and the study cited in @112 pertaining to Indian engineering colleges are unrelated to the USA. As far as I can tell, no one so far has brought in any studies pertaining specifically to affirmative action policies in the USA.
     
     "109 surmized that underqualified blacks are given jobs over qualified whites and I say that's the biggest pile of shit I have heard in a long time."
     
     It's the wording that's important here. By lowering the admissions standards for one group of people relative to another, you're inherently admitting people from that group who are less-qualified (at least at the time of admissions). How much less qualified and whether this has a tangible effect on productivity is debatable.
     
     The definitions of "qualified", "tangible", and "productivity" are also debatable, as the meaning could differ significantly depending on context. There are other effects of affirmative action that are also debatable, e.g. "fairness", "effectiveness". The validity of any opinion, for or against, will need to be justified.

115. Posted at December 25, 2014, 12:10 am by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     @114,
     
     Thanks, the inclusion of the article about indian railways was a mistake; It's unrelated to the US. However, you need to proof that employers lower standards for blacks when they diversify their workforce. You and I know that that statement is a speculation at best. Back up your arguments with facts or don't mention them at all. I completely disagree that black employees are employed at the 'expense' of more qualified white folks. Also note that you are speculating that the standards of employment are being lowered for women as well. I also strongly disagree with that unless you show me proofs.
     
     This was the article I meant to submit.
     Read the abstract here: No reduction in productivity.
     http://www.nber.org/papers/w1240
     
     If the meaning of 'qualified' is debatable and dependent on context then what makes you think the standards of 'qualification' for some groups are lowered in the first place? Have ever employed anyone from a minority group before? Have you served as an advisor of any sort to a board of employers? What is the origin of your speculation?
     
     Hmm.... I smell prejudice.

116. Posted at January 4, 2015, 9:38 pm by M Are you sure?:Yes/No

     Where is the love?